Navigation: Select WHO'S ON: 1:01 AM === Administration / Help / Support === Village Manager Corner Bug Reporting & Support === Welcome / General Discussions === Meet & Greet === Current Events, News & Political Action === Industry Issues Current Events & News Viewpoint Political Action Center === Emergency Care Essentials === Emergency Care Essentials Forum EKG Challenge Toxicology Trials Infection Connection Cardiac Care Center Call Review Down On The Pharm Pediatric Profile Research Center Terrorism Response Center Equipment Reviews === Management Essentials === Health & Safety Issues Legal Lines Management Issues Vendors & Manufacturers Grants & Funding TechNet === Training & Education Essentials === The Student Center The Educators Corner === Off-Duty Essentials === On The Light Side Off-Duty === The Social Scene === customize new topic search today help faq home

FORUMS > INDUSTRY ISSUES [ REFRESH ]

Thread Title: ARTICLE FEEDBACK: New NAEMT Position Statement Opposes Ems Participation In Executions Created On Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:07 PM Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]

phayes Village Manager Posts: 629 Joined: Feb 2003

Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:07 PM Industry Issues: New NAEMT Position Statement Opposes Ems Participation In Executions By: NAEMT In a new position statement, the National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT) states its strong opposition to participation in capital punishment by EMTs, paramedics or other emergency medical practitioners. " Read the entire article at: http://www.emsvillage.com/articles/article.cfm?id=2321 Then tell us what you think!

Reply Quote Top Bottom

jayffemt Veteran Villager Posts: 1251 Joined: Feb 2005	Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:39 PM Why does an organization who admits that they have no authority over its members and that those members may have different opinions and beliefs on the subject, bother to make such a statement? Other than making a press release what purpose does it serve? ------------------------- Only 1*
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006

Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:55 AM It gives the impression they are actually representing us when in fact, they are not. Or it could be they are representing us on issues they can be outspoken about but not at all a priority to most of us in American EMS. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator

Reply Quote Top Bottom

jayffemt Veteran Villager Posts: 1251 Joined: Feb 2005

Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:52 PM I'm just curious to know what statistics made them think that this is a pressing issue for EMTs. How many EMTs have been asked, forced, or felt pressured to participate in an execution? I'm sure it's possible, but unlikely for the vast majority of us. If it was an issue, a state could easily implement a program to train a corrections officer to perform the "medical" portion of an execution. ------------------------- Only 1*

Reply Quote Top Bottom

elvismedic Veteran Villager Posts: 1783 Joined: Oct 2005	Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:54 PM Just wondering why anyone cares what the NAEMT says. It's not like they are a regulatory body. Personally if you are capable of, and willing to take part in an execution then I say more power to you. If you object to executions then don't get involved. ------------------------- Village Piper. Don't do anything you don't want to explain to the Paramedics.
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006	Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:01 PM Hell, I don't think we do enough of them. Let me do them all. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

ESPARKS Veteran Villager Posts: 2345 Joined: May 2003

Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:41 PM I'm pretty sure this comes about from the stink raised at an Ohio prison where EMT's were involved in death row preparations. Isn't NAEMT based out of Columbus Ohio??? They are much the same as national registry in believing they are much more important & powerful than they really are. Ed ------------------------- Take care and play safe out there !!! The dean of common sense

Reply Quote Top Bottom

elvismedic Veteran Villager Posts: 1783 Joined: Oct 2005	Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:39 PM Much like many EMS professionals I know they're legends in their own minds. ------------------------- Village Piper. Don't do anything you don't want to explain to the Paramedics.
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

PARAMEDICMIKE Senior Forum Moderator Posts: 3443 Joined: May 2003

Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:50 PM Quote Originally posted by: ESPARKS Isn't NAEMT based out of Columbus Ohio??? They are much the same as national registry in believing they are much more important & powerful than they really are. Ed NAEMT is a useless trade association based out of Clinton, MS. NREMT is the certification agency based in Columbus. NAEMT thinks they're more than what they really are. NREMT does nothing more than exam development and, more recently, program accreditation (much like NLNAC does for nursing programs). -be safe ------------------------- -be safe ************************************* Aut inveniam, aut faciam. "There is an incessant influx of novelty into the world, and yet we tolerate incredible dullness." -Thoreau

Reply Quote Top Bottom

Zorfox Junior Forum Member Posts: 174 Joined: Jun 2009

Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:03 PM Whether to assist in execution or not seems to be more of a religious issue in my opinion. Euthanasia, stem cell research and countless other arenas have struggled over the old church versus science separation. The fact of the matter is that a human being has been sentenced to death. It will happen whether the guard has to choke them to death or a health care practitioner employs a more humane method. “The Code of Ethics states: A fundamental responsibility of the Emergency Medical Technician is to conserve life, to alleviate suffering, to promote health, to do no harm, and to encourage the quality and equal availability of emergency medical care.” “Conserve life” implies there is an eventual end, not how the end is approached. “To promote health” is to improve the quality and natural quantity of life. And finally the best example, “ to alleviate suffering”, is hanging at the end of a rope preferable than a peaceful pharmacological death? So I read way too much into the NAEMT's stance on the issue. Thought way to far out of the box. Sue me; and if you sentence me to death for it then PLEASE let a medic give me something to humanly end my life! ------------------------- Don't follow the pack. Go your own way and leave a trail !

Reply Quote Top Bottom

ESPARKS Veteran Villager Posts: 2345 Joined: May 2003

Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:28 PM Since death row criminals usually got there by committing a heinous act that caused suffering and death to their victims, why should we have to treat them humanely????? If they brought back flogging to death or caning there just might be more of an incentive to not commit the crimes. At a bare minimum bring back "old sparky" from the storage closet and let them suffer. Ed disclaimer The above are my personal views and are not to be construed as anything else. ------------------------- Take care and play safe out there !!! The dean of common sense

Reply Quote Top Bottom

elvismedic Veteran Villager Posts: 1783 Joined: Oct 2005

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:04 AM Not to mention the years/decades of appeals. Overwhich the condeming evidence is reviewed and new possibilities are explored. As for the whole "State Vs Church" debate. Personally I believe there should be absolutely zero involvment of church in all aspects of government. Because of the varying religions in this country to use one over another is just not correct. I don't think there should be oaths taken on bibles or any other religious If someone wants to go down the "golden rule" road; I believe all the major religions; Christian, Judaism, Hindi, Buddhist, and Muslim all believe in the "golden rule" in some form or another. To the point of suffering... My question is: is it more humane to kill someone or keep them in solitary confinement for the remainder of their lives? If I ran prisons there'd be no cable TV, no access to an education other then high school, if they rioted they'd live in the mess they created. Prisons have gotten to far away from the penal portion of prison. If you don't like prison don't come back. ------------------------- Village Piper. Don't do anything you don't want to explain to the Paramedics.

Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006	Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:33 PM I am with you all the way on this one. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

jayffemt Veteran Villager Posts: 1251 Joined: Feb 2005	Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:31 AM If you assist in poisoning a serial killer, couldn't it be argued that you are preserving the lives of potential victims? ------------------------- Only 1*
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006	Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:20 AM Not really as the serial killer is already in custody and no longer a legitimate threat. It still does not mean I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

Zorfox Junior Forum Member Posts: 174 Joined: Jun 2009

Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:31 AM I don't know about that Rob. As effective as our justice system is, it might very well be preventing future lives from being lost. Not to mention the other inmates and employees there that may fall victim. I'm certainly no "right to life" personality. I support the death penalty strongly. My argument is that when it does come time to execute, we should be humane and swift. We shouldn't mimic the deviant behaviors of the people we are executing by using torturous methods. Although, I could change my mind easily if someone raped and killed my baby girl! ------------------------- Don't follow the pack. Go your own way and leave a trail !

Reply Quote Top Bottom

ESPARKS Veteran Villager Posts: 2345 Joined: May 2003

Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:45 PM Zorfox: I at one time thought the same as you. Then after spending time in various countries around the Pacific ocean and Asian rim , I saw how the severity of their punishment help lower the crime rates. Flogging is a brutal reminder to not break the law! The number of repeat offenders is very low is these countries. Ed ------------------------- Take care and play safe out there !!! The dean of common sense

Reply Quote Top Bottom

Zorfox Junior Forum Member Posts: 174 Joined: Jun 2009

Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:26 PM I certainly can't argue that point ED. Harsh punishments do lower crime and prevent repeats offenders. I am the opposite as you. I used to think we should employ those methods to lower the crime rate. If everyone was guilty that had been charged and the punishment met the crime it would be a great solution. Unfortunately, our own justice system has become more of a tool for corporations, an expensive game for attorneys to play and a stepping stone for future politicians to learn their trade early. When an innocent man spends ten years in prison, a person caught with a few grams of pot does more time than a rapist with a good attorney or the system completely collapses because of a technicality something is wrong. Mistakes happen. That's something we have to live with as a society. Sadly they happen so often it has become the norm rather than the exception. The average citizen has become apathetic to the failures. It simply comes as no surprise to us anymore. So I would agree if we had a more effective justice system. But in the light of past atrocity's I don't think whacking a hand off for theft is the answer. ------------------------- Don't follow the pack. Go your own way and leave a trail !

Reply Quote Top Bottom

GERRYS Senior Forum Member Posts: 476 Joined: May 2003

Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:55 PM Dear All, So how does the death penalty work? Presumably in places like Texas murder is a thing of the past? No, thought not! Oh and what percentage of murders who are executed are from Upper middle class to high class back grounds? Not a lot I would think. Perhaps they can afford the better Lawyers? When Countries around the world hung people for stealing sheep the noose was no deterrent and I would suspect it's the same today murder is murder whether committed by the individual or the state. Regards, Gerrys.

Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006

Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:12 AM Gerry, have you been reading John Bentham? Stop that. Yes, he stated there were days in the UK where up to 300 people would be executed in a day, and this was no deterrant to crime. I tend to believe you IF, there is serious social inequality (do we have that here in the US? Hmmm), fair justice with civil and human rights adhered to. Otherwise, with a fair justice system, an effective and efficient police force, and better social equality, I think the death penalty could be a deterrant. I heard Nazi Germany had the lowest crime rates during the Nazi era (of course we are not including the state sponsored crimes against humanity). The Nazis were able to control insurrectionists by killing 50 civilians for every German killed by the underground. Many people stated this was a deterrant to prevent them from acting too aggressively against the Germans. Of course this had the opposite effect in Yugoslavia and the USSR. And as far as I am concerned, I don't care if it is a deterrant or not. It is about crime and punishment. We as a society show how we important we hold crimes against the taking the life of another. IF it is not a deterrant at all, but we kill 1000 murderers a day, that is fine by me. Of course I just hope they are all guilty, and not disporportionately representative of any particular social class. And, there may lie the problem here. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator

Reply Quote Top Bottom

GERRYS Senior Forum Member Posts: 476 Joined: May 2003

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:54 PM Rob, Revenge is pretty ugly motive for murder and it simply does not work, there is no doubt that social deprivation has links to violence, crime and addictions of all sorts, if kids see no way out by fair means they turn to foul. There are a few individuals who are just bad and will murder anyway it could be argued that properly funded mental health care would find a hell of a lot of them before they started but I digress. I've been to a heck of a lot of murders in 33 years and only one was premeditated. So would the noose have stopped them no, would funded education, better housing and social equality/ inclusion, perhaps. We may have to agree to disagree on this one Rob but that's why I like this site! Best Regards, Gerrys

Reply Quote Top Bottom

Zorfox Junior Forum Member Posts: 174 Joined: Jun 2009

Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:53 PM The polarized views from another country is one reason forums such as this are interesting. Gerry, in regards to your points I agree that any punishment for crimes of passion are not a deterrent. Your argument that appropriate mental healthcare and the availability of said healthcare, well funded education, better housing and social equality/ inclusion are completely valid. No, Texas still has violent crimes despite harsh penalties. My statement that harsh penalties did lower crime were in reference to the premeditated variety of crimes. We have a death penalty in the US. Right or wrong it is here. Debating whether it works or not as a deterrent in most cases is fruitless, it doesn't. Debating how the sentence should be carried out certainly is. Whether the death penalty is economically more feasible than housing a person for 50 years is also a “no brainer”. The socio-economic impact the US has on individuals is obvious to most as well. Since we do have a death penalty my stance is do it quickly and humanly. Since our prisons have no true reformatory approach, despite what you may have heard, years in prison does not help. When the “reformed” criminal returns to society they are further behind the eight ball since they now have a criminal background and are considered outcasts. Does not bode well for reformation in our society. Maybe one day things will change but for now, do it quick and humanely. Give the returning “criminal” a break and hope for the best. That's about all we have at the current time. Sad but true. ------------------------- Don't follow the pack. Go your own way and leave a trail !

Reply Quote Top Bottom

grambograham Senior Forum Moderator Posts: 3691 Joined: Apr 2004

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:01 PM The death penalty can be an effective means of detterence. One issue which occurs now more than ever is that stays of executions are very common. More common than carrying out the execution. In a way, life in prison is more effective if the person is above middle class. For those who are in poverty, the threat of life in prison may be nothing more than a way to get a room and three squares a day. Todays prisons are beginning to look like cheap hotels more than jails. It is important to treat everybody humanely, however this is meant to be a punishment. In my experience in working in both adult and young offenders centres, it is more common to see repeat offenders than one time offenders. This begs the question of the effectiveness of the current system. Jails are expensive to maintain and due to the "business" they receive, they are like revolving doors where it is not uncommon to have an inmate for a few days to a couple months and then release them to surveillance of one form or another. What is done is that they learn trades while in prison. This can give them a chance for another option in life or serve to make them better at their crime. There is no real answer to the question of what forms of punishment and rehabilitation will work best. The NAEMT should not be involved in the argument as to having EMTs and paramedics play a role in the executions. That should be the choice of the individual. Personally, I wouldn't have an issue in being a participant. I agree that the church should not play any role in government. Look at the mess it created in the 1100s-1400s. Many of the wars in that time period were over religious matters. Now in days, many of the wars have the same basis... relious topics and misinterpretations of religious materials. If the church did have role, we may see many many more executions as that was their responce to crime. Some of the most cruel and inhumane tortures were created to satisfy the churches' need to purify through pain and for punishment. ------------------------- If you can keep your head while all else around you are losing theirs'............................... You probably haven't checked with your answering service!

Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:40 PM Quote Originally posted by: grambograham I agree that the church should not play any role in government. Look at the mess it created in the 1100s-1400s. Many of the wars in that time period were over religious matters. Now in days, many of the wars have the same basis... relious topics and misinterpretations of religious materials. If the church did have role, we may see many many more executions as that was their responce to crime. Some of the most cruel and inhumane tortures were created to satisfy the churches' need to purify through pain and for punishment. What, you mean like this. And death row: In October in Orange County, Calif., Billy Joe Johnson, who had just been convicted of murder as a hit man for a white supremacist gang, begged the judge and jury, in all sincerity, to sentence him to death. Johnson knew that those on California's death row get individual cells and better telephone access, nicer contact-visit arrangements, and more personal-property privileges than ordinary inmates. The Los Angeles Times reported that the state's spending per death-row inmate is almost three times that for other inmates. The current death-row census totals 685, but because of legal issues, only 13 have been executed since 1977 (compared to 71 death-row fatalities from other causes). In fact, Johnson was so eager to be put on death row that he tried to confess to two murders that no one yet knew about. [Los Angeles Times, 11-11-09] ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator

Reply Quote Top Bottom

elvismedic Veteran Villager Posts: 1783 Joined: Oct 2005

Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:58 PM Another problem with our penal system. You get locked away as a punishment yet many inmates live better in prison then they do outside. They get 3 meals per day, cable tv, a roof over their heads, free access to a college education, and essentially a gym membership. If I were in charge they get 3 meals per day, a roof over their head, and the privilege of using a broom and shovel to keep our streets clean and freeing our cities of graffiti. They'd also work at least a 12 hour day. If you don't like your punishment then don't come back. ------------------------- Village Piper. Don't do anything you don't want to explain to the Paramedics.

Reply Quote Top Bottom

HEWITTC4 Veteran Villager Posts: 2268 Joined: May 2003	Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:33 PM I transported one prisoner that was annoyed that he had to go to the hospital because he was going to miss the HALO death match scheduled that afternoon. Each cell had an X-Box 360 that was networked throughout the prison. I don't even have an X-Box. ------------------------- Murphy was an optimist.
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006	Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:09 PM Go kill someone. You can then get one, along with free room and board, health coverage, gym membership, college tuition...wow, think of the benefits of killing someone. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

HEWITTC4 Veteran Villager Posts: 2268 Joined: May 2003	Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:26 AM Yeah, but I'm not partial to getting raped in the showers. ------------------------- Murphy was an optimist.
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

roblanious Veteran Villager Posts: 4098 Joined: May 2006

Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:41 AM I wonder how much of that is true. My cousin spent a few years in prison for burglary and stated that was not an issue there, though he stated his cell was less than stellar, with water leaking or something like that. I have water leaking in my house now after the snow storm. ------------------------- Greatness is not standing above our fellows and ordering them around, it is standing with them and helping them to be all they can be. G.Arthur Keough (1909-1989) Educator

Reply Quote Top Bottom

HEWITTC4 Veteran Villager Posts: 2268 Joined: May 2003	Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:46 AM ------------------------- Murphy was an optimist. Edited: Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 10:47 AM by HEWITTC4
	Reply Quote Top Bottom

Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]

FORUMS > INDUSTRY ISSUES [ REFRESH ]